0:00Hello creeps, I'll be your ghost. I mean, host. As we delve the crypts of spooky movies and even spooky your theory, welcome to horror vanguard. All the time. It's the friends we made along the way, isn't it? Look, we've said always that the show is about the three important things in life, which is communism, friendship. And if there's time, maybe a scary movie. What else do you need? I mean, like, soft for is really loud, Icelandic music and dancing, but we'll get to that. Yeah, I mean, I suppose I should ask, how are you doing?
1:00How did you sleep last night? Well, you know, I've been sleeping so well here in this rustic hotel that we've been staying in. But last night, I actually slept better than I ever have in my entire life. And it's all thanks to those Icelandic dancers. They're beautiful racket lulled me to sleep like a mother's lullaby. I have never slept so well. How about you? It was a little bit awkward that they decided to give you specifically an entire leg of lamb, but I know that they were just being hospitable. And I'm very glad you didn't take that personally.
1:36No, I just, I simply regifted it. I know plenty of people who would happily burst out into Icelandic song and dance over the gift of a leg of lamb. But hello, everybody. Hello. Continue. Hello to the to the nebulous audience that is Diane in this context. We continue our adventures through the metatextual journey of trying to understand Twin Peaks. I am joined by the log lady of Horaván God and how are you doing? I'm doing great today. How are you doing a special podcast investigator, John? I am a little tired. I could do with I could do with a good cup of coffee, but I am we're holding it together.
2:29Oh, so, so I guess I guess we should start with like the meto formalism zone. As you recall from our episode on Rest in Pain, we were convinced we recorded it. We remembered the conversation and the episode just simply did not exist. There was no evidence to be found of it. It was subsumed into some some black, lodge cycle of existence. And here we find ourselves again at episode five, Cooper's dream. And I swear we did this one. The conversation we're about to have the notes that we've taken, everything feels so familiar.
3:09I am in a lynchian moment of deja vu. Yeah. I mean, are we? Are we forgetting that we've done this or are we remembering something that we're about to do? Ooh, I like this. I like this. I love the deep discronear. We are remembering events that have yet to come. We are temporally dislocated. We are out of time. We are bound into the endless act of repetition of restaging the same questions like Hamlet's fathers ghosts. We have appeared once again, we've appeared once again to haunt you all by talking about drunken Icelandic singing.
4:08And if you would like to appear once again as a ghost and a joy, some of the finest, finest traditional folk music coming out of Iceland, you can go to horrorvangard.com, which is our website that we have now. It's got links to everything. Oh, I have saved a fumbled plug. You can also go to patreon.com forward slash horror vangard. Stay winning. Yes. I am very impressed. Horrorvangard.com is not a bit anymore. Also, do you remember how we've done the show for like three years and we had the wrong sound cloud link on our Twitter profile for that entire time?
4:49Yeah, that was great. I'm so happy with that. But hey, you don't come here for like a masterclass in podcast marketing. You come here for the most advanced arcane sorcery when it comes to discussing horror cinema. So, you know, we're staying on top of the ball. We're on top of and fumbling pretty much everything else. Well, let us, let us talk about Koopa's dream. Let us enter into the media cultural shared psychogenetic hallucination that is twin peaks. Let us talk about. Let us talk about dreaming and Koopa's dream specifically.
5:32So this, this I find really intriguing, right? Obviously this is a, this is a David Lynch piece of artwork. So the concept of dreaming is going to be very central to how we approach it. But I think Koopa has literal dreams and twin peaks that we get to explore. He's also got these dream state visitations of the black lodge. But I think more broadly, the episode title is really evocative for me because what is Koopa's dream? Like Koopa the man, Koopa the person. What does he dream for on this earth? And every moment he gets to have his little musings, he just wants to settle down in the town of twin peaks.
6:12He loves the community. He loves the quiet nature of the trees. He wants to rest. I think, I think a good way of contrasting the show is to think about something like Christopher Nolan. To think about inception. So Christopher Nolan is like a very formally interesting filmmaker, right? Interested in the mechanics of how do you tell narrative through sequential images? I mean, just think about tenant, right? Think about the time problems in interstellar. Like the big one is inception because it's about when Christopher Nolan dreams, what does
6:55Christopher Nolan see? And Christopher Nolan sees a ski resort, right? He sees the kind of beautiful form of the object, right? Idealized, perfected. Everything is kind of like high sheen. There's a gloss to his psychogiography, to his internal dream landscape. When Cooper dreams, when Lynch dreams, like everything is everything is less realistic but much more real, right? Because what is Cooper dream of? Cooper dreams of of peace, right? He dreams of he doesn't dream of anything beyond the realms of the possible. Probably dreams of the actualization of the possible, right?
7:45Yes, yep. And the second point to bring up here is like, what is the relationship of the dream to truth? And so what you can do is you can think of truth as essentially a matter of the interpretation of kind of like mute externalized facts. So this is the traditional truth of the detective, right? Facts exist outside there in the world and you have to kind of interpret them to solve the hermetic puzzle of who did it. But if you think of the dream as an altered state of consciousness, which it is, you can also think about truth as a relationship to consciousness.
8:30See I love this reading of what's going on specifically in this episode because I think that this is this is an episode where kind of the production of the truths of twin peaks really start to emerge. You know, we we've already met the black lodge. We've already situated ourselves in this kind of occulted atmosphere. And now we're beginning to kind of make meaning with the pieces that we have. We know our cast, we know our characters, we know our events and we move for the first time. I mean, isn't this isn't this the whole point of the the the log lady quote that I know you wanted to talk about.
9:05Yes. Oh, log lady stay stay log in log lady. Log in your way through my heart. So in the log ladies introduction of this episode, which I'm now legally mandated to bring up, I tell what I can to form a perfect answer, but that answer cannot come before we are already to here. So I tell what I can to form that perfect answer. And then she goes on to state and kind of that that same opening that she's speaking of a fire and the fire that she's speaking of is not kind. And I think this this really stands out in the nature of dreaming too because there's something deeply involuntary about the dream state.
9:50You know, there's desire. This is something I mean, this is something we talk about literally every third episode on the show, the the the Lacanian Jezeki and approach to desire, right? It's this occulted thing. It is hidden behind layers of meaning. And the second you touch it, you fooled yourself because it's already three steps behind other things. You know, like like you never desire the thing you desire. It's always sublimated through something else. You just have to make peace with that. And I think the dream state often finds a way of cutting through that.
10:22You know, the uncomfortable kind of unkind nature of dreaming, the awkward space between the dream and the nightmare. It's a way to kind of open up to the raw reality of what is desired in the sense of the subject. And I think to me, it's really interestingly as a show, right? Everybody is a different relationship with their desire. And I think Cooper in a way is one of the characters that's most open about what he wants. Yeah. And I think that's what makes the relationship with the Audrey so good. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
11:05Let's let's talk about that. And also, can we just talk about how great this show is in the fact that it doesn't think that sexual chemistry is necessarily instrumental? Like the two of them, the two of them have intense chemistry, but also like it's never instrumentalized towards a particular end, right? The end of them both ending up in bed together, right? That's not what happens. But there is this kind of like acknowledgement of the kind of libidinal character of social life. There's so many other shows just don't take seriously or treat in such a very narrow way.
11:53And you know, you can, you could write it off and be like, well, it's just because they had two great actors who just really, and yeah, of course, that's part of it. But also there's a deliberate choice to frame these two characters this way. Yeah. So I think that this is such a phenomenal thing to highlight. And this is the episode to talk about it in, right? Because what's the end of this episode? It's Audrey Horn, naked and Cooper's bad. You know, like it is so libidinal, it is so enticing and taboo and forbidden.
12:23And it's kind of pivoting on all these very dynamic, like points. And you know, what is Cooper do? He respectfully handles the situation and dismisses Audrey. You know, as an adult should do in that situation, right? This kind of steps out of that, you know, like recognizes the libidinal character of the moment and negates it. And I think this is just so powerful, right? Like this episode was directed by Leslie Glatter who's gone on to direct a bunch of like successful TV shows and I think two or three episodes of the Twin Peaks, the original series.
13:02And she's even on the record is saying like, you know, like they never intended to have like any kind of romantic or sexual relationship between Cooper and Audrey. Yeah. It was just two characters who by where they were in their lives and what they were and what they wanted were naturally drawn into each other. Yeah. And I think the way that this show is so open about just the libidinal nature of being without having to kind of like a modern Twin Peaks put on HBO would have had them sleeping together in a scene with full nudity and then it would have had an arc where Cooper had to like, you know, he was like, oh, he's he's getting drummed out of town for what he's done or something like that, you know, yeah.
13:47Well, I think that's the difference between like a runicism and pornography, right? Yes, absolutely. And I mean, though, and I mean that in technical terms, right? I'm not trying to draw any kind of like moralistic, not trying to make any moralistic judgment here, right? And the great thing about this episode and the great thing about this show is that a worse show would have like properly infantilized Audrey in relationship, not just to Cooper but to the world. Yes. You know, oh, she's like, she's, she's the, she's the one without any power or agency and he's like the hot older guy that she like, but that's not how this works at all.
14:23And so much of this episode specifically is about her, her, the way the Audrey moves through the world in a way that is kind of just like utterly fascinating to me. Oh, I completely agree. Like, Audrey has given a huge amount of agency in this show, right? Like what she does with it is often dubious and foolish and juvenile of fitting to her characters so perfectly well. But like the fact that like the text of the show respects her enough to be like, you're a full person begin to make decisions within the story that's unfolding.
15:02Yes, absolutely. And that like, again, not to like try and compare Twin Peaks to like a Disney plus MCU show, but like it would have been so easy to transform Audrey into this unproblematic heroine. Yeah, because she has all the makings of a gothic heroine. She's trapped in this labyrinthian castle of a hotel. She's got her tyrannical adulterous father like it also in sestuous father, right? She is the classic. She's pulled straight out of castle, the castle of a Toronto like, but the Twin Peaks is like, OK, we're going to make this much more complicated.
15:44Yeah, absolutely. Like what happens when Audrey uncovers the kind of secret between with Catherine and when they're talking about burning down the mill. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, her dad. Yeah, and what does she do? She laughs at him. Right? Like in a classic, the classic gothic heroine would be terrified or repulsed, but like she understands what she sees. And like, and this in a way, this kind of reminds me a little bit of Mary Harren's direction of American psycho, which understands the inherent ridiculousness of a certain kind of like male heterosexuality.
16:35Yep. I just find it kind of funny. Abs, absolutely. So I love Audrey so much. Audrey and Cooper are made. I love so many of the characters, but the two of them are just amazing. And this is a great episode for Audrey. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like Audrey, Audrey is, I don't know how to say this other thing. She has the energy of a missing Scooby Doo character. Right. Getting into hijinks, exploring, solving mysteries. She's a teenager. Like there's this kind of freedom and whimsy to her. Even though it goes to some extremely dark places with her character specifically.
17:21But is that not the nature of being? Is it not just true that sometimes a desire to pursue, you know, like because a lot of Audrey's involvement in this investigation is extremely juvenile. You know, she's doing it because she wants to prove to this older man that she's got a crush on, that she's that she's adult, right, that she's worthy of his attentions. And like over time, it becomes much more complicated than that. It becomes much more and that's something that she wants, right. That's she's not doing it for him.
17:50She's doing it for her, which I also find to be really interesting about her character, right? It would have been easy to write her as like a school girl with a crush doing things for the man. But no, she's doing this because she has a crush and she wants it. Agency, right? And yes, and you go, yeah, that is juvenile. That is juvenile. That is. But also the something kind of amazing about that, right? There's something like how many of us, how many of us have gone through our lives refusing to act like isn't this isn't this the whole point of psychoanalysis is like it's not to get you to get get desire the correct thing.
18:29But it's just the kind of like get you to admit to yourself what it is you actually want, not what you have come to tell yourself you want. Yes, absolutely. And to kind of build off of that, I've known so many people who picked up rock climbing, because someone that they were into was into rock climbing and they wanted to share more quality time together. The relationship didn't work out, but years later they're still climbing. And that's just a trite example of someone who found a fitness hobby through the kind of whimsical and silly pursuit of desire.
19:08And there are also like in the case of Audrey Horn, there are also very dark and deep and complex ways that this continues to emerge. Yeah. And what I love about the show is that it takes all of that so seriously. Yep. Right? It never, it never, it never, little is oldry and goes, oh, well, just there are silly 18-year-old people grow out of it. I think they go, no, actually, there you go. Yeah, maybe that's true. But like in all of its kind of psychodrama and and and libidinal eroticism and danger, there's something about putting oneself into the act of of agent.
19:48Like being the one who acts in the world is an extra ordinarily powerful thing. Yes. And I think that this is something that like like, you know, you mentioned the way that Audrey's character kind of moves through the world. She's like, she's literally slipping through the walls of the the great northern hotel, like a ghost. She knows all the secret passages. You know, she has a style that doesn't really match the rest of the people in Twin Peaks. There is a supernatural quality to her presence. And I think that in the same way that Cooper kind of commands this mystic kind of sorcerer's presence, right?
20:29Cooper's in touch with something far greater than most people in Twin Peaks can see. And so is Audrey Horn. They're just looking at different aspects of the same kind of like, I don't know, like Numinous Divine. Yeah, two kinds of like presence, right? Cooper is the mystic. The solid presence around which the world kind of turns. Audrey is the ghost. Yep. Who kind of slips between the world. And I think Audrey understands what this show bases a huge amount of its time on, which is the kind of like the refusal of any distinction between the libid and economic.
21:15There's one economy, right? There's one circulation of desire and capital. I mean, this is what one I jacks is basically the very embodiment of. But like I'm thinking particularly of the scene where she goes to get the job of the department store. Yep. Right? So you have this, that you have the businessmen. What's the first thing? What's the first thing this guy says? I remember you when you were a little girl. Yep. And it's this kind of, it's creepy. It's kind of like a creepy style. It's this passive aggressive sexualization.
21:49Mm-hmm. And she gets what she wants. She gets what she wants out of it. And she does it by understanding that intersection that there is one economy. There's what the circulation of capital that he oversees is intimately bound up within the circulation of desire. And if you can manipulate one, you can manipulate the other. Exactly. Cooper is this kind of mystic figure commanding these occult forces, right? He's very much a constantine-esque figure. So it's Audrey, but she's commanding these like libidinal energies.
22:31And it's no wonder that the two characters are drawn together. Like, they're opposite ends of a pole. They're two magnets who just naturally seek each other out. Yeah, precisely. So there's another kind of nexus point that we should talk about the context of that and this episode, which is our poor, troubled heartthrob, Bobby. Bobby. Bobby breaks. Who, if, if, so I suppose if we could phrase it like this, which is like if Audrey is interested in this kind of libidinal aspect to social life, Bobby is interested in this kind of like familial structure.
23:17Because what is it? What does he do? He's inserted himself into the domesticity of Shelley and Leo. And we even have Bobby Briggs going to family therapy. Bobby Briggs is all about the psychological or psychoanalytical problems of the family unit. What do you think about Bobby in this episode? I think that Bobby's character nails the bad boy in ways that I think very few texts are capable of because I think that James Hurley is not a bad boy. James Hurley is more a sea on a motorcycle. You know, he's, he's troubled.
24:03He's a, he's a good sad boy. He's not a bad boy. Yeah. He's a sad boy. Exactly. And then when he's a Victorian melancholic in a, in a greaser costume, you know, he wants to write some graveyard poetry. And, and I think like that is the formula for bad boy in a lot of media, right? Like he's not, James Hurley is not dangerous or threatening in the slightest. Bobby is, Bobby, Bobby will hurt the people around him. He is, he is a very dangerous person to be near. He's involved in like a lot of literally dangerous activity, a lot of violence, a lot of crime, but he himself is also a nexus of that like kind of omnidirectional harm.
24:46And there's something, there's something manic about him. He, he like Audrey has a lot of agency that he's going to exercise, but unlike Audrey, he, he is not in control of it. It's, it's just firing off all over the place. And his focus on domesticity is really interesting because we see him like, we see the bad boy pitted against a legitimately bad man when, when Bobby and Leo kind of enter into conflict with each other. Yeah, there's something kind of, there's something kind of like endearing about Bobby where it's so like as soon as he realizes it's Leo on the phone, he's like terrified.
25:22And a lot of the relic that scene between Bobby and Shelley, you know, when he's like, oh, I love your cooking. What does it really circulate around? It circulates around the gun. Yep. Right. And again, you don't have to be a psychoanalyst to read things this way, which is like, he's, like, he's, he's quite, quite literally and figuratively cuckolding Leo. Yes. Like he's moved into his house and you have this cozy domesticity, which is underpinned by the kind of phallic violence of the gun as signifier. What is it that maintains the quote unquote marriage system?
26:02It's this, it's the sexualized violence. And it's not a super, like if you, if you want to stand that context of that scene, it's not a surprise that Shelley shoots him right at the end of this episode. Absolutely. Which go Shelley, fucking do it. Yeah. Go off. Yeah, go off queen. She did nothing wrong. Yeah. In defense of Shelley. Like I think that is, is absolutely, absolutely fascinating to it. To play Shelley off of these two men, I think is another really interesting thing that this episode does because we kind of see, we see Bobby for like, he represents danger and he will hurt people and just destroy relationships.
26:47But like that kind of acidic energy that he brings us sometimes for the best, he destroys Shelley and Leo's relationship, but that relationship was going to destroy at some point. That was a relation that was a thing that needed to die, that thing needed to be destroyed. Those two should not have been together anymore. Leo should have been dealt with. And then along comes Bobby with his kind of like aggressive, assertive, chaotic energy and he facilitates this. He's the burning of a forest for new growth. You know, there's something weird about that.
27:22Isn't there something that like Hank brings up really well in this episode, which is like, oh, you try not to hurt anyone, right? Try not to hurt anyone. What does that make? What does that generate? Psychically, it generates misery. Yep. And like for all of the chaos of Bobby breaks, all of the chaos of Audrey, what do they do? They are honest and open about what they want and what they desire and they are willing to try and act in the world. And even not despite, but maybe even because of the knowledge that that might hurt people.
27:59And like, is that kind of a fascinating way of thinking about social dynamics? If you try and avoid all possibility of pain, what you do is you end up just turning inward. You kind of like psychically curdle your own consciousness. But it's like, is that it? Is that all you? You know, that's a really fascinating thing about this show where it goes, if that's all you're concerned about, what you will do is, is that to recipe for passivity? Yes. And we see the, so we have the love triangle setup between Bobby Briggs, Shelley and Leo.
28:40And we also have the love triangle setup between Ed, Nora and Hank. And the only difference there is there's not the kind of chaotic bad boy energy that Bobby brings that is necessary to break a bond so that people can move on. And and Hank, not Hank, rather, but Ed and Nora wind up just totally emiserated over that. And it's so interesting to see these two love triangles played off each other. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So should we, should we round out our discussion with a little psychoanalytic therapy for our wayward Briggs family?
29:18Oh, yes, let's look at our family therapy. Dr. Dr. Jacobi is, I really recommend Dr. Jacobi's new book, Ten Rules for Life. I think it's a phenomenal read. You can pick a copy of it on our Patreon. Ten rules for managing your James Dean wannabe teenagers. And there's that amazing line, there's that amazing line from Bobby about his father about Briggs. Yes, you have a, have you ever killed someone only in wartime and Bobby's mother said, that's different. Bobby quite rightly goes, how is how, how is that different?
30:00Absolutely. And we see because major Briggs is so clean and respectable as a character. He is, he is quite literally a caricature of the most respectable, imaginable American man of a particular era. Right. He is a decorated war veteran. He is incredibly well spoken. He is successful in his field. You know, like he acts with nobility. But like Bobby just, Bobby just, just reads him, just, just cuts straight through all of that pomp and decor. I, my other favorite moment from the session with Dr. Jacobi is, when he asks Bobby, if he's unhappy, what do you think?
30:50And he goes, well, that's not for me to say, that's not for me to say. And it's like, is it what, what are you for, Dr. Jacobi? And it becomes very clear what Dr. Jacobi is for when he gets Bobby on his own, and his, his purpose is a kind of like psychic humiliation ritual. Right. Yeah. And we see, I mean, like, Dr. Jacobi is a great, just all-round creep. Just, just the worst, just the worst possible character. Foucault could not have written a better character to display what is wrong with psychology and psychoanalysis and mental health under capitalism.
31:34Like, like, like, Jacobi is here to, he's, he's, I don't know, I keep coming to, to like, sort of, sort of, sort of like a sort of, sort of, sort of, sort of, sort of, very, he's, he's, he's interested in exclamation, right? He's, he's this unable to, unable to kind of really let go of the lost object, which is what all the, all the Laura was to Dr. Jacobi, obviously, just the, the, the lost object of the, the melancholic. And he, he's trying to kind of like, literally, and sort of, he's trying to get inside people's heads to pull out the ghost, the corpse of that which is lost.
32:33Mm-hmm. Totally. Uh, what, what a, what a all-around creepy dude. Yeah, 100%, 100%, just one of the, one of the shows few like, clear bad guys. Where would you like to finish with this episode? So, so I have like a, maybe, maybe like an open-ended question slash statement. This is, this, I'm doing, I have a question, uh, but it's more of a comment. But like, so one of the things the log lady says in this episode is that she, she says her husband was a logging man. And oh my god, let me, let me just, let me go, go ahead and bolt the coin here.
33:21The, the log lady says my husband was a logging man. He met the devil. Fire is the devil hiding like a coward in the smoke. And that line, I think, is so important for our reading of dreaming and desire in this episode of Twin Peaks, but also the show in general and the other media's like the two movies in the book. But on top of that, I think it situates labor. You know, the, the log lady opens up that line by, by focusing first and foremost as her husband as like a blue collar working man. You know, like a very purposeful detail and how we look at it and understand things.
34:01And I think for as mystic as the text of Tim Twin Peaks drifts towards, it is always permanently and forever rooted in some very serious material realities. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And this is, this is the, this is the interesting thing about the show, right? Which is like, and something that I think is actually very impressive about it is that it does all of this kind of like deep internal work, this, this huge psychoanalytic introspection. But at the same time, it, too often I think it's really easy for culture to establish this dichotomy between the material quote unquote, real world and the world of the, the, the, the psychedelic world as it was.
34:50Yeah. The, the, the, the, the dreaming mind and Twin Peaks better than pretty much any other show. I think it integrates the two to give you actually hold a holistic impression of not just what's happened, but what does it feel like to live in this kind of condition? I totally agree with that. And I think one of the final things we see in this episode is, is Leland dancing and having his breakdown. And I think one of the, it's one of the scenes that ties all these points together. It's, Leland has recently experienced a trauma to the scale to a scale that, you know, hopefully most people never get to experience.
35:36You know, like he is, he has now survived something truly catastrophic. And as we will go on to learn, he did more than just survive it. He participated and the racked place his psyche is in is, is barely navigable. And what I think is interesting about his breakdown is that how everyone responds to it as an embarrassment. Like Leland, Leland is the graphic heroine of this episode. Yes, yes, absolutely. And it's, it shows the ways in which what they, what they would call, you know, sensibility is such a heavily gendered terminology.
36:20Like he's, he's a, he's a, he's a hysteric, right? Yeah. He's treated, he's treated like a hysteric. Like he's, oh, you should go away. You should, you should lie on your fainting couch. Yes. It's telling him to go convalescent. It is, it is undergirded by the, by the demand you should not embarrass us publicly, which is what that kind of emotion is, is seen as the sign of. It's seen as like a social problem. It isn't, it isn't. And in a way, it is because that kind of loss is, it is irreducibly a social problem, right?
36:57That kind of grief. That, that is a social problem. And it should be acknowledged. It should be dealt with. It should be integrated into social life. But we live in such restrictive systems that it can't be, or it, or it, or it, or that, that, that opportunity of integrating it into social life is refused. And the kind of heartbreaking thing is like the moment when it could happen, right? The public dance. It's played off as a joke. Mm-hmm. It's played off as a joke. Like, it, like, it, Leelon becomes pathetic. Yeah.
37:28You know, huge amounts of paythos in, in this episode, I think. It's because social decorum has to be preserved. Even though Leelon knows, and we know that that social decorum is just a veneer for the kind of like this sort of weird psychedelic vortex of, of violence and sexual desire. Absolutely. And, and Leelon is also his, his modalities that he chooses to express his grief are very social, very emotional, and very interpersonal, right? He's, he's always just dripping with paythos everywhere he goes, and it's splashing onto everyone.
38:15And especially if, so if he would have, if his, if his mode of grieving would have been to ask the horn brothers to go party at one eye, jacks for a weekend, they, they would have been like a hell yeah, brother, let's go. You know, like you are now exhibiting the appropriate grieving patterns for a male of your age and economic status. Please continue. You know, like if he would have bought a car or like, like gone, gone on a beach vacation or something. But instead he's, he's trying to return to a community, but it's a community that he, as he's discovering does not actually exist for him.
38:52These are just economic relationships. He doesn't want him. There's a community that doesn't want him. It wants it's, it wants his capital. Yep. He was, he was only ever there as a functionary of the great Northern's economic success. He was never really there as a person. All right. A little bit of a longer, longer, longer, many episodes today. Well, this was episode five. We went a little, a little over the many episode length, but hey, that's, that's kind of what we're known for at this point. Thank you everyone.
39:24And in two weeks, we'll, you'll be hearing episode six of our Twin Peaks retrospective. Season one of our Twin Peaks retrospective, I should say. So enjoy your coffee, enjoy your pie, and look out for those doppelgangers out there. We hope you've enjoyed the dread discourse. Until next week.