0:00Alright listeners, we are back. We are back at the diner. We are sipping coffee. We are enjoying pie. It is time at last for the return. Not the return to Twin Peaks. That's next year. This year is season two of Twin Peaks, our Twin Peaks retrospective. I am Ash, one of your co-ghosts. Join us always by John A.K. I the Lickert guy. How's it going, John? Yeah, good. It is the coffee is excellent. The pie is delicious. The log lady of podcasting has visited us once again. I am fine. I am like a big picture. I am fine. I don't know if I told you but just a moment ago someone knocked on the door of the HV crypt. I opened it and was shot three times at point blank range. It is fine. It is so fine. Don't worry about it. I am just in a bit of a weird space right now.
1:21I saw that and I made sure to do something to help you out. I hung up the phone for you because it kept ringing. I hope that it helped. I am giving you a very slow thumbs up right now. I also took one of your rings. I think that might be useful but in a way I haven't figured out yet. Cool.
1:46I was just going to make an owl's heart and what they seem, Joe. We will have the owls aren't what they discourse in just a minute so we can skip that one. We are back. We are back in the beautiful town of Twin Peaks. Not far from the Canadian border. We are talking about the first season of episode two. So episode eight overall. May the giant be with you. How does it feel? How does it feel to be back in Twin Peaks? I have missed doing these Twin Peaks retrospective episodes so much to a comical degree. I have missed these episodes. How about you? How are you feeling being back in the wonderful land of Twin Peaks? It is good. We are going to go through a lot. We are going to go through quite a lot together. I hope everyone is feeling ready for this. I think maybe a good place to start as we talk about the first season of episode two. The first season of episode two.
2:58Should we talk about how this show decides to do its previously on Twin Peaks? It is so funny. Yes. I would love to hear your thoughts on this one. It is one of the more interesting features of season two. Obviously, if you are starting a new season, you need to bring people back up to speed. The way they decide to do this is basically have one character explain to Cooper while he is lying in a hospital bed. Literally everything that has happened. It is done by Lucy who has just the best voice for this. Leo was shot. Jack was strangled. The milburned. Shelley and Pete got smoke in a lation. Catherine and Josie are missing. Nadine is in a coma from an overdose. Of course,
3:52Lealand and Sarah Palmer continue to be the most normal couple. What do you think about the choice to have all of these kind of exposition delivered to Cooper rather than showing us what happens? I think this is so effective on so many levels because in Twin Peaks is one of those interesting sitcoms where the previous season almost doesn't matter, but that also makes the previous season so vitally important to understanding its context. It is able to wield both of these mutually negating swords and giving us a spark notes of some high plot points and kind of reducing the show to its most like contemporary crime drama bullet points. I think it is a fascinating decision to make.
4:46I love that you described the show as a sitcom. I think that's really funny. I don't know what I was really expecting, but I couldn't help but think so this first episode is like an hour and 45. I think that's all right. But is it just me or is it like the opening half an hour like really goofy? There's a bit where Cooper is shot basically turns into an extended physical comedy routine with a comedically old room service waiter. I don't know. There's a bit of me that found this kind of difficult to sort of latch onto it first because I did. What do you think of this kind of like tonally? I think it's super interesting you described this in a semi-froading slip maybe as a sitcom. I think there's something in season two. At least the first leg of season two that's much more comedic. Albert is much more a cut up in season two. There are a lot more like bits and gags and jokes in this season. I'm not quite sure what to attribute that to, but I think now that we have the power of hindsight and we have Twin Peaks the return season three, we can see this trajectory of the world of Twin Peaks becoming increasingly unhinged. First is tragedy then as farce. The death of Laura Palmer season one was very challenging and very hard and in this season it's like we've got a lot of gags and a lot of justs. In the first three episodes we have like Jacobi's hypnosis scene. We have like all of this kind of like slightly more wacky stuff and I think it's appropriate for a like deteriorating psychic landscape of the town and the people they're in.
6:48There's some good physical comedy though. Andy gets to do some good physical comedy business by getting smacked in the face with the plank. It's interesting. Albert is kind of like the straight man of the comedy duo. There is the odd couple that's him and Cooper. And yeah, the interesting thing about okay so this is maybe a slightly weird point, a slightly formal point, but the interesting thing about comedy is so much of it is dependent upon like minute shifts in time. Like there's nothing worse than a joke that goes on too long right. But there's nothing funnier than a joke that goes on just long enough and it's about. And in a way dealing with crime is about engaging with the nature of time and people's experience through it. So like Andy gets hit in the face. It's very funny. He doesn't fall down. He just kind of staggers around for a bit. The the elderly room service waiter comes in with the glass of warm milk very slowly leaves and then comes back in to give the bloody Cooper on the floor thumbs up. Like so many of the like it's so it's so deeply silly, but there's so many interesting things happening with the framing and kind of like the beat to beat time. It's involved. And the fact that in your season premiere where you have like double the episode length, you allow like 30 minutes of basically wacky sitcom hijinks as you're opening move. Yep. Oh my god when when when Cooper's laying their shot and he's signing the the receipt and he has does this include gratuity in a bit that has now become gratuitous. That is just like 3d chess brilliance. Um well you and so I don't know there's a bit of me that found found this opening kind of kind of weird to to get back into because you're right. It's it's very goofy.
8:55It's very goofy. Um and that's the kind of strange thing about a show which is like deeply concerned with a serious ethical investigation of the of the sexual and misogynistic violence that women particularly a subject to. But it's also oh look the like the the the slightly goofy local cop got hit in the face and it's funny. And it's like this. I think the show kind of struggles to marry those two elements in this first episode. And I think that this is something that is kind of a uniform quality of stuff that David Lynch works on because he has this kind of grotesque realism that he he's very interested in as an artist. The the kind of like it's life it's life in a fun house mirror right it is a true reflection but all the proportions are exaggerated. And like it's this is something I think we talked about a bit in the season one stuff where it's like the horrible tragedy is happening simultaneous to some of the wackiest high jinks you've ever experienced you know like the you know like you will receive horrible news on the same day that like a late birthday gift shows up.
10:13And like that is that is kind of twin peaks in a nutshell you know it's it's everything happening at the same time there's a there's a loudness to it that I think is the the dissonance is more noticeable in the in the start of season two here. Yeah I think so and like I I don't think it's I don't think it's bad it's just I don't know it's there's a bit of it that feels kind of weird but if we're talking about the weird then I think we have to talk about your favorite character we have to talk about the log lady which is open a log way yep 100% cannot go without talking about the log lady's pricey yeah I mean as the as the log lady of this podcast what do you think so so this of this log lady introduction and again like listeners if you if you've only ever watched this on a streaming service you might not have ever seen these I think they're still up on YouTube and you can watch them there but in the television broadcast airing of the twin peaks episodes each one would start with a little introductory speech from the log lady and in this one you know like she's talking about dreams right and one of the things that she talks about is well how many how many characters are in your dream like when you when you have a dream and it features your father your mother a lover your coworker a friend whoever like how many people are really in it and the log lady kind of posits that like there's only ever one person in your dreams and it's you you know it's it's you the dreamer reflect refracted and reflecting through your own psyche and I think I find that really compelling because like that's you know like that's a hermeneutic tool right that's a way of analyzing the dreamscape and you it's one of many it has its own benefits its own utilities but like you know like says something we've kicked around on the show before is applying that like that very concept to the reading of a piece of media you know how many how many you're using log lady dream analysis how many characters are in twin peaks but he's just one there's the viewer there's you there's the audience member and and how you see and perceive coupe and all of these other people is just a refraction of the self through the prism that is David Lynch and Mark Frost I don't know I don't I like I think this is a really interesting question which is like if there is only one subject in twin peaks who is the subject and I think I think the argument that it's the audience is actually a really powerful one but an alternate point argument is there's the only one is Laura I was that is exactly what I was thinking is that if there is one in trough the text you know we even see that in these first two episodes here which was something we'll get on to later that these characters even in season two these characters are still totally beholden to Laura's presence or absence rather absent presence as someone might have said my favorite my favorite twin peaks character Mark Fisher yeah or you're other favorite twin peaks character Jack Darada Darada would fit in very well Darada would fit in very well oh my god Darada would be indistinguishable from any any twin peaks character oh my god um or a Dorna I could see a Dorna working too oh two grumpy two two two two two two two two two suspicious of television as a medium I think but uh Darada totally 100 but so I mean yeah or a farmer but like I actually think I actually think Laura is an interesting character mostly because she took on a kind of cultural impact not just intro the text but external to it as well right yeah posters of who killed Laura Palmer are like are part of the cultural vernacular of the early 90s in a certain kind of like a certain a certain slice of like 90s Americana and it's like the kind of worrying thing is the degree to which the I think very obvious and very clear ethical and moral concerns that like Lynch has with things like the reality of life in America kind it very easily for people to gloss over and go like oh they're just being weird and it's like yeah they are they are being weird but like it's a witness directed towards truth and not for its own sake oh absolutely absolutely the absurdities of the lynchian world are only there to kind of highlight the absurdities of our own world if we think it's absolutely bizarre how how anything operates in twin peaks that's only because in our world right the quote unquote real it's infinitely worse should we should we get into the nitty gritty then should get into the details of of some of the discourse of this opening episode yeah yeah I think I think that that is the right the right move to make and listeners in the audience if you want to get into the details of twin peaks you might enjoy our season one retrospective which which was made possible from support from viewers like you or listeners rather patreon patreon.com slash horror vanguard www.horovangard.com twitter and instagram at horror vanguard as where you as where you can find us where you can support us and your support hides hides cocaine on our motorcycles it that's no Alice that's no Alice that was that was that was
15:40I'm saying was planted by by the rival greaser gang leader um but we are by our rival podcast but we we have formed a scubi do group to try and figure out who murdered a local popular high school girl which may or may not be involved with extraterrestrial cult forces um let's let's kind of let's catch up let's catch up with some of the residents of twin peaks shall we yeah yeah so I want to talk very quickly about families um it's a it's a sitcom it's a soap it's a slice of americana and it is deeply heartwarming to see that families continue to be like a weird Freudian nightmare deeply uh leeland parma has had his hair to completely white he spends a lot of this episode singing kind of like semi-nonsense songs uh which is again turned into a good bit of like physical stick with banagery um but basically what's interesting about parma leeland parma is this idea of like a kind of semiotic collapse which he was going through in like the end of the previous season and it's found its way back into sort of like these this kind of semi-nonsense singing and what do you think about leeland parma's language so I find leeland parma's transformation to to be one of the most interesting things in this season this season two and we'll definitely be talking about this more in in future episodes but but i one one of the things that i find fascinating so he's he's had he's had the spirit of bob kind of excised from his being right and so now he's kind of like back on his feet overloaded with this rapturous joy and it's almost as if his his daughter never died you know the only mark we see is on his body it's this denied white hair and and now he's he's gone from kind of like being this manic force of evil to the kind of this force of malignant joy he's he's almost more haunting and more threatening now that he is is free of a transdimensional demon man yes who we will spend far too much time with in the future there's there's another there's another kind of weird familial moment which is the briggs family bobby briggs local bad boy local grunge icon bobby briggs who is constantly rebelling against his dad who is literally the federal government involved in like clandestine operations major briggs and but then there's this like kind of weird moment in the dine up between them where it major break tells it's how major briggs tells him about a vision he has and he says it very clearly it's not it's not a dream it's a vision and it's this beautiful idea of the vision was his son and the kind of moment of uh sort of psychic and almost spiritual reunification between the two um what what did you think about that moment so i think that's really interesting because this is one of the things like we like we spent a lot of time in the last season talking about the kind of strained relationship between father and son briggs and i think they're they're reunification and i guess i guess the the kind of spark or the potential of their reunification i think foreshadows a lot of like interesting tensions that those characters represent in him body is one of the things we we talked about a lot in the previous season is that like bobby has some of the most correct analysis about what's going on in the community of twin peaks you know despite the kind of you know repugnant villainy of his character generally he does see what's going on in this town um and and on the other hand we've got major briggs who is like sworn his entire life to the machine responsible for this evil but nevertheless retains a kind of like incredibly interesting zen aesthetic which which is and this is something that i would like to get your opinion on like do you think major briggs because one of the things i was considering in these first few episodes here uh he major briggs plays a heavy role popping in and out and it feels more like his presence the things he has to say how he presents himself is less of a principled philosophical stance and more of the kind of uh waxing aesthetic that a lot of like it's it's the kind of things that
20:38Kissinger would say when asked about all the people that he had turned into pastasos you know like oh yeah absolutely he's he's he works he works for the military he's he's a he's a he's a he's a specialist in psychological warfare he's a he's like why would you why would you take anything he says super super seriously but like in a way that makes makes his kind of vision sort of it's it's sort of cruel because you know Bobby very clearly is like quite emotionally moved by it and it's like in that vision i wonder was major briggs still wearing his uniform which seems to be the only clothes that he owns you know he is his uniform you know be beyond the sense that twin peaks everybody has a uniform but yeah and and and totally like like it's kind of like it's not so much a joyous reconnection of father and son but like an explicit threat you know like Bobby's Bobby's struggle for some kind of freedom right his ill his ill-defined and in unprincipled resistance to the world around him you know like the worst way that that could resolve the darkest thing that could become is if he just replicated his dad yeah absolutely absolutely and then then we have then we have so like we've got the Parmas we've got the Briggs and then we've got Ben Horn Bennagerie we've got the brothers ice cream continue to just just be the worst just the oh man and this is this says something given like the nature of most of the characters in twin peaks but like my god are those too greasy yeah what do you think what do you think about our reintroduction to banagerie i mean i think the thing that i find interesting about those characters those two especially and they're they're dynamic with each other and this is something i don't think we talked about in season one but i think it's more apparent through season two is that like so Ben Benhorn is your classic gothic patriarch right this is something we talked about a lot um in the classic gothic patriarch does does a few things right he's he's some kind of failing baron right and Benhorn is a type of failing baron he's got this business empire that's on the verge of collapse if this deal doesn't go through right you know he's he's architecture too much crime and nefarious deeds for it to fail um and he also has to have an incestuous relationship with his daughter who is also trapped in some kind of labyrinth and in season one the labyrinth that Audrey finds herself trapped and is literally the walls of the great northern hotel and now here in season two the labyrinth is a bit more metaphoric it's addiction it's it's the like brothel she works at one i jacks all things owned and architecture in the result of her father's actions but i think you know like we we see a new dynamic with jerry and that's the kind of like at least a fleshing out of a dynamic we're like the kind of incestuous bond between these two and and just as a way of highlighting the general the general like absent moral core of the horn patriarchs yes yeah um you are who are just gleeful in how much they love doing crime yeah um so they they haven't really changed but i think we should also we should then talk about we should talk about what has happened to um i mean i think my favorite character in the show uh the legend that is ordry yes what do you what do you think about how the show is dealing with ordry's choices so i i think i think this is a really powerful continuation of a lot of the themes in season one for both Audrey and for Laura um Audrey is nothing if not a gentle right Audrey is a force in the plot of the show she is directing its action she makes choices and those choices have wide ranging repercussions both positive and negative um and i think that makes her capture all all the more powerful right that that makes what's going on with her and her kind of like labor in uh one i jacks the tension is so much more real than like you know we we just got down with talking about an episode of that was straw dogs and Eden Lake to two films in which uh women are nothing more than props in the agency and architecture of a patriarchal world uh in the world of you on top of that uh and it's it's like kind of paradoxically refreshing to watch Audrey create all this chaos because she has clearly spelled out goals she's trying to achieve them she has things she wants that are both positive and foolish she is arguably one of the most fleshed out in like quote unquote human characters and all of twin peaks and it contrasts so much with Laura Laura's the like this ghost in the show you know her only agency is her absence right and and then Audrey this person that like almost everyone hates or despises or is annoyed with um is is actually like you know like our uh final girl if you will yeah i mean i'm i'm a i'm a it's a well known fact i'm in or do you uh a complete simp for orgery like icon queen can do no can do can do can do no wrong in my eyes um uh but yeah i think that's i think that's true and it's about the escalation of what happens to her because she doesn't necessarily grasp the consequences or the kind of scale of the problem that she's you know trying to you know see that she can go go go forward and solve mm-hmm and it's like it's she's you know there's a very kind of classic gothic moment it's very uh rochester and jayna where she's like like calling for
27:00Cooper to come and help her mm-hmm oh yeah yeah absolutely and this this really like coo Cooper is is also like your classic gothic male protagonist in so many ways he has this kind of like you know he's like conrad or something he has this efficient relationship to the state that grants him a level of power and nobility but he is also additionally noble beyond that limitation you know and he's not willing or he's not unwilling to kind of risk his relationship to the kind of font that gives him his power in order to save the day i think it's it's it's so compelling to look at the civil lens of early gothic fiction i mean yeah absolutely i think that complete i think i completely works especially especially with Cooper and Audrey oh yeah uh any any kind of like final thoughts as we wrap up this first uh for a back into twin peaks yeah and i think i think a lot of twin peaks is very like it's very avant and it's theoretical posturing and and one of the things in this kind of first episode that i really like is there's like a lot of talk about like seeing through walls right this kind of like the perception of x-ray vision and like you know you can interpret that literally or you can have fun oh and take take those like elements and be like okay like what would it mean to like actually see through a wall and this got me thinking of one of our earliest episodes the black tower this got me thinking of like a lot of conversations you and i've had about architecture and and psychogyography and like you know the fact that like how how could we see through a wall in a way that isn't just comic hero nonsense you know and that's and that's a materialist analysis right like that allows us to quite literally like see through the walls of power right like both literally and figuratively you know like what what's going on in the closed door deals of a bank meeting right like the specifics might be you know lost to us but well we know what's going to get architecture out of that by just simple material analysis
29:11so how do you think that applies to this how do you think that applies to to our engagement between peaks so that that i think is really fun right because like it all depends on how we see the presence of these walls and where we decide to to erect them and this is something that i'm going to talk a lot more about in our next episode we start talking about owls but like we could we could you know reduce twin peaks to simple fend and we could erect walls between ourselves in the text and those walls are made out of cemented bricks of one of the most disgusting products ever made ever made in the human endeavor and that's the Laura Palmer wrapped in plastic funco pop you know and that that is a very palpable psychic wall between oneself and legitimate appreciation of a text and not to like I don't know whatever gatekeep enjoyment here but like if it is reduced to such simplicity that is a palpable wall between an individual in a text and like an actual deeper grappling whether it's the types of analyses we use here on the show or others is a way of piercing that but I think we I think we stop it that all right well everyone we're back this is this has been the first episode of season two of our twin peaks retrospective we will see you all next week when we discuss episode nine coma uh
30:41diet is that we have more questions than we have answers a new episode you have a sad a plan then it's time you're going to kick out of this one if the long history of the reception of owls reveals the one thing is that we have more questions than we have answers