0:00Now begins. Season 2. Episode 10. The Man Behind the Glass. Do you want to lead us into hell? Let's lead us into the pit. Oh, dear. Do you want to lead us in? Yes, absolutely. Good morning. Good evening. Good night. How are we doing? We're back with another episode of our Twin Peaks retrospective. Today, we'll be discussing episode 10 of Season 2 with the Man Behind the Glass. I am one of your co-ghosts. I am Ashley Dero. I think as always, by the one, the damn fine John, aka, at the Lickrick guy. How's it going, John?
1:03I am good. I am. I am a damn fine. I'm in need of a damn fine cup of coffee, but let us do this. Let's continue our autopsy of Twin Peaks. Okay. Let's kick off this episode by talking about a new fan favorite, Albert. Yes. Let's finally get back to Albert, who is continuing. Honestly, it's shaping up to be MVP of the opening of Season 2, in my opinion. Yes. Just game changing stuff. Shakes up the dynamic between the characters really nicely. And there's a moment that I know you wanted to talk about in this episode.
1:58Oh, abs. Absolutely. So in Season 1, Albert is very much just kind of in expression of these really simplistic thoughts about the tensions between the urban core and the rural and external at externalized. But we have now something very exciting happen. So Albert is doing his thing. He's the forensic guy he's he's giving information to coupe and and our sheriff and, you know, of course, he keeps making disparaging comments about the sheriff and the people, the rural community of Twin Peaks and like, which is ironic, because Twin Peaks is a population of over 50,000.
2:36So it's not quite nowhere America. But like, you know, like the sheriff grabs him by the collar. And he's like, last time I only sucked you this time, you'll get much worse. Albert grabs him by the collar and the setup is perfect because up into this point, we would only have known that these two would have ever had an exchange of physical violence. And then Albert starts talking about how he's fighting violence on a global scale. And that he's walking in the path of Martin Luther King, Jr. And that he's he's a man of great peace and that all of his actions stem from a place of love.
3:19And he ends, he ends their interaction by saying, I love you, Sheriff Truman. It's it's I love this. It's delightful. It's so good because it shows he albots having the same experience that Cooper had. Right. He's he's becoming integrated into the into the kind of like psychological strangeness of the town. Yeah. Because nobody really nobody really believes that the FBI guy is inspired by Martin Luther King. That's a great joke. Oh, yeah. It just reminds me of that tweet where someone pretends to be the to be the FBI. It's like just because we killed Martin Luther King.
4:03Doesn't mean we can't miss him. She's a script. Right. It's like, that's what this joke is. That's what this bit is. It's so good. And even even like, you know, like Cooper, Cooper gets in on the action by saying, I would say Albert's path is a strange and difficult one. It's like I'm so curious to see how they're going to take this kind of like, you know, it's almost a stereotypical stock character and do some really interesting kind of reconstructive work because really the whole point is like if Twin Peaks is the space in which all of the buried libidinal economics of your own subjectivity get exposed. Maybe that is the lie that the FBI tells themselves, right? Maybe that is the line that they tell themselves that they are.
4:52I think I think lots of people, especially on the left, fall into this trap of thinking that our kind of class enemies or opponents in politics are just kind of bad. But in fact, isn't it, isn't it kind of worse that like the global infrastructure of capitalism is maintained and served by people who maybe quite sincerely believe that they are in the working in the interests of global peace, right? Isn't that, isn't that maybe a kind of worst thought? Is that harder to deal with? Right, right. And honestly, I think it offers us kind of I think a point of hope and a point of opportunity because it reveals that moral analyses kind of fail.
5:33And it's it's these are material relations, not ones that are extrapolated to kind of like liberal moralism, you know, like it's I'm less concerned with the content of someone's heart and more concerned with like, what do they do with their hands, you know. In inverting pinheads, it's not hearts, but hands that call us. Oh, no, no, I that's that is the inversion. I'm absolutely messing this up. Absolutely messing this up. I'm leaving it all in because here in the land of twin peaks, we get to contain complexities, which I think is like one of the things that I was thinking about is kind of your commentary about tar watching this episode.
6:17Because one of your one of your strong points from our tar episode was that Lydia tar is not a person, you know, Lydia, Lydia tar is part of a cinematic text. If you will and like like Albert's not a person in Twin Peaks, the FBI isn't real in Twin Peaks. This is part of like a fabric of a text, you know. And so like like, you know, kind of like what what are these things, you know, like, like what are the what are the signposts here and like Albert is very much a like cynical like like he comes off as a cynical blackhearted, you know, deeply jaded man who has nothing but loathing and for him to tell share of Truman, he loves him and for him to mean it.
7:00I think that is that that is an incredible like Cooper is right that that is a strange and difficult path to walk like we see the kind of like the joke is almost on us in a way because we've been assuming this whole time that Albert is this ontologically flat character free of any complexity, but no he's actually like this writhing living contradiction in terms. What a great point. We also get introduced to another new favorite character of mine, I who we get we get introduced to Dick Tremaine resident, Richard, Richard Tremaine resident fancy boy, the fanciest lad in all of Twin Peaks and what do you think about what do you think about this absolute what do you think about this absolutely incredible character.
7:58So like like we get this amazing exchange right between hawk Richard Tremaine like we're like so like Richard Tremaine goes by the name dick. And like that's very clearly like the joke is very obvious. He has a dick and like like hawk just roast him alive with like this little like word game word game pun. It's just a fantastic sequence and like I think it really opens up the space of kind of contrasting dick and Andy it with like like a masculinity from the from the standpoint of like a masculinity's discourse. Right because I think they're both I think it's really appropriate that they're both fighting over the same woman. I think it's both really appropriate that they both struggle to be pretend fathers.
8:49And like they both represent this kind of like like to mutually opposed but mutually interwoven like views of a broken masculinity because you've got Andy who kind of really desperately wants to be like the tough beat cop, you know to be competent with his gun to be intellectually effective for the law. And then you've got dick who is who is just kind of a fancy lad right who would be probably like a pickup artist if the show would have been made a few decades later or something. Yeah he's peacocking he's peacocking pretty hard.
9:25Yeah he's peacocking yeah yeah yeah. And like like I really love the juxtaposition of those two characters especially putting them into a homosocial triangle. I mean that's so much of the show is concerned with that right is concerned with the development of various networks between networks of connection of these libidinal exchanges between people. And the fact that like again all of this idealization all of this like notions of like appearance versus reality is always is always kind of shown to be in direct there's a kind of friction between these things which is you just can't eradicate.
10:04And yeah I think the show does does some of its most interesting work where it's interrogating those kind of straightforward normative visions of what masculinity is and and the ways in which that masculinity is often a kind of like pretext for violence against women. Oh absolutely right like the sight of conflict for these two men not being quote unquote not man enough isn't internal it isn't with each other it's it's over a woman right it is through her and buy her that they fight and like you really clearly see like like like they're just a great object lesson if you will of the kind of like damage that patriarchal masculinity is represent.
10:52Well I actually think that brings up the other kind of big part of this episode which is the continuing struggles of Audrey. Yeah so at this point in the show I think we we reached the first time where Audrey's agency is really stripped from her because we now we have a power struggle between blacky the kind of like like the woman who runs the brothel and genre no joke and she knows older brother who is a much more competent criminal as we will see that his younger brother and they realize who Audrey horn actually is and they they keep her keep her doped up on drugs so that she can't act.
11:37It's what makes this kind of twist in her character I think more than just what we see in in other media where women are just reduced to the status of objects and props and the kind of adventures and escapades of our masculine heroes is that it is a turn for Audrey right this is a loss on her part she had great agency used. Really your wisely is kind of irrelevant she had tons of agency and now it's taken from her now she is reduced to a piece in a larger game where what are some of your thoughts on what's kind of going on with her character now.
12:11Yeah I think it's I think it's this is the kind of the moment where there's real there's real pressure right that where the the kind of the the if we continue the kind of gothic castle metaphor right this is this is the point where the the familial patriots stop smiling and like the game kind of ends like the game where she goes oh this will be fun and I'll be able to like impress this mysterious stranger from outside of town who looks very good into tuxedo And it's suddenly becomes like much more dangerous and like she realizes like the thing this is the point at which you kind of go what happened what happened to Laura is often the kind of abstracted away and what happens to to run at Polesky is often abstracted away but like with the net kind of waking back up and what's happening to Audrey suddenly the show gets very dark very quickly.
13:15And like the thing that's important to kind of point out about this is this is something the show does a lot which is point out that for a lot of its women they're there they're almost always very close to a lot of violence right doesn't take much right you know think about Shelley and Leo doesn't take much he can just come home one day and like the world could end right there's there's this kind of inescapable paranoia that you have to kind of like be inculcated if you can inculcated if you're going to if you're going to and this is I think again you're quite right let's think about this as a kind of text and what this text is trying to say it's about this this understanding that like this is a comment or a critique of the idealized notion of American society more generally right it's it is a place that the group that necessarily places women particularly but not exclusively but the show is concerned with this is placing them in like genuine kind of there's a sort of skin there's a kind of a membrane at which you can very easily get pushed into something that can kill you quite horribly in Laura's case.
14:29And I think this is the point of which you know the stakes escalate quite quickly. I so strongly completely agree and I think the only thing I would add to that is there's also notes of again to bring this up what feels like really recently again here on the show is Carol Clover's commentary on ice but on your grave right not only is there a gender dynamic to what is happening with Audrey's character right now there's also a class dynamic Audrey Horn is the daughter of the man who runs Twin Beaks right of its most powerful financial and political player who's who's criminal employer extends across the Canadian border you know like she is in the crosshairs not just for gendered reasons but also due to class position.
15:21Yes but actually but actually this is this is the this is the point right which is like Audrey gets away with a lot because of who it that is oh yeah yeah yeah but like this is the point where you go well the the patriots power always turns inward right you know if you if you trouble if you trouble the structure of it this is where it will come for you as well. Yes oh 100% that the structure is the structure is the thing that is being defended at all times right it is it is the capital P power it is the hierarchy that is the thing that is that is defended everything else is sacrificeable to the construct itself yeah.
16:05Yeah and I think and I think this is this is a really important character moment right if you think about and again it's it's true that I think a lot of the show is often reduced to just like it's kind of weird moments but the weird moments are always in service of something and I think Audrey is a really good example of the way in which the show is trying to pose a particular aesthetic to achieve very concrete very straightforward and very kind of like well executed narrative goals Oh yeah yeah this has been a really heavy turn that we've taken here for a bit talking about Audrey so I think we should talk about something a little lighthearted and that's whether or not Laura Palmer is dead enough.
16:47Yeah I mean because apparently no is the answer right the bots um slides she's not buried deep she wasn't very deep enough yeah spoken by Donna after realizing that James and Maddie or having a thing yeah this is the this is the kind of fracture point of the things that we started to see last episode James a clearly you know they're three young people all dealing with kind of various traumas Maddie is like kind of feeling the strain of being of being Laura you know this desperate it's actually a really sad moment where she kind of like tries to assert that you know that's not who she is she she just came from the field of the game
17:30She is she just came from the funeral and now you know it's sort of like everybody has projected onto her this new identity. What do you think about about that scene at Laura's headstone and this notion of like communing with the dead. So I think that this is the this moment to me was kind of a moment that's counter posed with what Bobby says at Laura's funeral. You know like like like Bobby very correctly points to the rest of the town or Twin Peaks and be like no you all killed her. You know like like it's the system sustaining that ended Laura's life and then now we have you know Donna here you know at the gray of later on you know like like lamenting that even in death the town is still orbiting entirely around Laura that it's still kind of hers in a way.
18:22And nothing can kind of grow beyond that there's something like. There's like a grim note of capitalist realism there you know like we invented a Laura Palmer and now that's all we have for the rest of forever is different riffs will have iron man Laura Palmer will have bat Laura Palmer will have Laura Palmer versus star wars. It's just going to be the it's it's just it's just the deck chair shuffled until the ship goes down. Yeah I think that's I think that's it's a really kind of relatable moment you know I maybe said when we were talking about the very first episode in the season that is a bit goofy but I think the show has really the show really finds its feet in genuinely kind of heartfelt and kind of really well handled emotional beats.
19:05And I think it's like it's a very relatable moment this idea of like realizing that you will always be the very worst version of yourself right especially if you come from like a small town or if you come from a very kind of tiny community and it's just the kind of desperate need to get out right you have to get out because it's only by getting out that you might get the chance to be something other than what you always already are. Yeah and one of the things that you and I have talked about a lot is that like a lot of horror meditates on this idea of it's a change might be unsettling but the deeper fear the kind of more meaningful impactful fear is is what would happen if you couldn't change what would happen to change ceased for you and you were frozen as what you are for this day ever forward yeah exactly and I think one of the really scary things that kind of emerges in this episode and kind of twer
20:02and peaks is interesting relationship with horror as a genre is that to Donna into into we we see this revelation through her Laura can never change the way Laura died who she was when she died what the world made her all of those things together means that she she died to this static thing woven into this kind of greater tapestry of lies and crime and misogyny. And that free that freezes her in death right like like no one no one is is kind of like it will take about two decades give her take for people to grow past Laura Palmer's life and death you know like it is it is a stultifying thing for the community and that is that is something really scary to know that that's also true for any of us.
20:55That depending on how we live our lives there is a chance that our deaths will be a cause of great stagnation. Yeah and the sense of like inevitability that like the same things are going to happen again right the same the same things are going to recur And you know you sort of realize that that's what's maddy's maddy is afraid of that and you know order is afraid of that when you know there's this kind of like scene of like weaponized drug addiction which is like genuinely really really kind of grim and unsatling and you go oh yeah this happened to Laura as well right this was and this idea of like this the the the unexercised ghost to Laura Palmer.
21:41It's very much active in this episode right. Oh deeply deeply deeply there's there's so much about the kind of like developing of the early part of season two that is really like the the echoing consequence of everything that happened to Laura is now like all those material processes didn't go away. There now just being distributed again throughout new players in the community yeah so would you would you like to let's return to something silly for a minute let's let's let's talk about what the hell is going on with an a dean.
22:18Yeah so but again this is a story that's actually really tragic right you get to what we get we get to hear Hank's story of how they ended up together. You know like two two young people kind of emotionally mixed up didn't really stop to think about it and the story of how Nadine loses loses her eye like it's it's really it's again you know Nadine was kind of a joke in the first season and in this you kind of go there's something so tragic of this idea of being in an unhappy marriage from the off and being the one responsible for like blinding someone in one I being the cause of them losing an eye and they never they never they never blame you.
23:02And you said like there's a lot of like emotional complexity happening to this but what do you think of what happens to Nadine in this episode. So so Nadine had attempted to take her own life by overdosing on pills went into a coma and has woken up but now she has reverted to her 18 year old personality you know she now believes that she is an 18 year old. And not only that but like believes that everyone around around her sees herself as an 18 year old right you know when she looks at the people of Twin Peaks now she sees them as they were when they were 18.
23:41And I had the most brain-rooted to online thought when when I was looking at that and that's that's the kind of the perennial tweet that pops up and causes discourse every now and then which is would you be a 18 again would you be a teenager again or would you take a million dollars. And it's like we we we see that play out here being a teen again is literally hell that is literally a nightmare beyond human conception that that drags us into the hell drags of our own existence. And a million dollars could deal with a lot of material problems with face.
24:21Yeah absolutely and it's like this is the this is the miracle right is doctor says it's better than a trip to lords you know taking her off to France for miracle sings the song she wakes up and she thinks she's 18 you go it's very much you know the finger on the monkey's poor has curled and you get exactly you get exactly what you want right because this is this is the thing that makes me feel it's quite tragic because there's this idea of like if you could if you could would you go back to the very first time that you met someone that you've known for years and have a chance to kind of undo all of the pain that you caused them.
25:02And you kind of go yeah maybe I would maybe you know maybe I if I could maybe I would but actually it's just being trapped again like the kind of the sort of the sort of hardest thing really is this idea of like there's some stuff you just have to live with. And yes and even if that stuff gets taken away that doesn't fix anything. And I think it it allides that the solutions to the problems are in the now right like or even in the future yes yes. His history history has to be lived through right it we are we are constituted by the very worst moments of our own past in some ways right and the whole.
25:44And the whole point the whole point of kind of being a being human being in some ways is like are you able to are you able to kind of continue living with that right are you able to are you able to kind of like do something productive and full of kind of possibility with that. Absolutely absolutely and I think that similar impulse this kind of retreat to the past there's something I think very sinister in that even even in the lightest implication of like look at what's going on with the climate and when what are what do I mean like if and when.
26:25Any anyone in a position of power acknowledges climate change you know like the next the next song and dance immediately following that is Elon Musk and Bill Gates are teaming up with Jeff Bezos to launch a bunch of random chemicals into the upper atmosphere which will sure it'll permanently turn the sky orange and if we ever stop doing it we all die instantly but it's going to solve the problem. You know like we can't retreat from the actions we've taken we have to just keep pushing through the way to keep working with what we've done.
26:58I yeah I couldn't I couldn't agree move and listeners listeners let me let me ask you a question everyone out there and listen to land right now. Okay I'm going to give you a choice you can pick one of these three one of them is correct would you be 18 again and get to get to relive your your young adulthood would you take a million dollars or would you go to patreon.com slash horror Vanguard and support our show for way less than a million dollars and way less for the psychic damage of becoming 18 again. You can also go to www.horrorvangard.com which yeah I know I really need to fix up the website a bit but you can still there and Twitter and Instagram at horror Vanguard is there there's a patreon plug that's also a curse.
27:47Oh dear oh dear so as we as we stand on the precipice of the man behind the glass is there anything that you would like to add. I'm excited I'm excited for the for the next how many episodes 60s 18 episodes we've got 18 episodes to go. The road is long the night is dark and full of tarot's but we will keep pressing on with it to in peak season two how about you. I am ready ready to roll here this has been a great discussion and listeners we will see you next week for depending how you count episode 12 and or four and or episode 11 Laura's secret diary.
28:53If the long history of the reception of owls reveals the one thing is that we have more questions than we have answers.